Where Logic Meets Performance

Transcript Search in video 0:00 (pleasant intro music) 0:03 - When debaters step up to the podium, what determines 0:06 who wins and who loses? 0:08 Is it just optics, tone and sound bites, 0:11 or do facts still matter? 0:13 Here at Suffolk University, debate isn't just a winner 0:16 takes all free for all. 0:18 It's helping students find and amplify their voices. 0:22 Hello and welcome to "The On-Ramp," an ongoing series 0:25 that highlights thought leadership from Suffolk University 0:28 in downtown Boston. 0:30 My name is Francisca Baduya, 0:32 and today I'll be speaking with Professor Frank Irizarry, 0:36 he's a senior instructor in the advertising, 0:39 public relations and social media program 0:42 who lives, breathes, teaches, and coaches debate. 0:46 Professor Irizarry, I thank you so much for being here 0:48 and welcome to the show. 0:50 - Thank you for having me. - Of course. 0:52 So, you are a debate coach, debate judge, 0:56 a former college debate champ, 0:58 and you even teach courses on debate here at Suffolk. 1:02 What first drew you to debate and what's kept you hooked? 1:06 - That's a great question. 1:07 When I was in, when I started college, 1:09 I played football my first year in college, 1:11 and I'd been, at the start of my sophomore year, 1:14 I broke my arm and I had a fairly serious arm injury 1:17 and I was actually thinking about dropping out 1:19 of school altogether just to kind of clear my mind 1:22 and get myself together, figure out 1:24 what I want my next move to be. 1:26 And as I had finished packing up my dorm 1:30 and I ran into the debate coach at my school. 1:32 And I had taken a class with him my freshman year, 1:34 and he had told me, he's like, "You should come out, 1:36 like you have some aptitude towards this." 1:38 And I saw him on campus and he asked me how I was doing. 1:41 He had heard that I had hurt my arm. 1:42 He asked me what my plan was. 1:43 I told him I was thinking of leaving school 1:45 and taking a leave, and he said, "You know, you should come 1:48 and join the debate team." 1:50 He's like, "When I was in college, I actually hurt myself. 1:52 And that's how I got involved in debate 1:54 because I needed a competitive outlet." 1:56 And so debate proved to be 1:58 that competitive outlet when football was no longer 2:00 a competitive outlet for me. 2:02 And that's what probably first drew me to debate. 2:04 - Wow. Well, I'm so sorry to hear that. 2:06 I'm really glad that from there- 2:08 - But it's all worked out. 2:09 - Yeah, I mean obviously now it's worked out, 2:11 but for you debating is about much more than simply people 2:15 taking a side and opposing each other. 2:18 Why is that? 2:19 - I think because of what debate represented for me 2:22 when I was in college, when I was 19, 2:25 and I joined my college debate team, that it was a lot 2:28 of my motivation to stay in school was because of debate. 2:30 And then I was also, I was a political science major, 2:33 so I always had a passion for politics. 2:36 And so I just saw a debate as a natural extension 2:39 of that interest. 2:41 And then now seeing the skills that debate teaches you, 2:45 I enjoy that opportunity to try to instill those same skills 2:49 and teach those same skills to my students. 2:52 - Of course, are there any principles 2:54 that people can take from debate 2:56 and apply it to how they analyze complex topics? 3:00 - Absolutely. 3:01 The first thing I tell my debaters is 3:03 you've watched presidential debates 3:05 and political debates on television. 3:07 We are not that. 3:09 That's not what we do. 3:11 So we focus on logic and reasoning and supporting evidence 3:15 and understanding the structure of arguments. 3:19 And I think that that makes people better informed citizens. 3:23 I think that makes democracy able to function. 3:26 And the skills that I've used in debate, I've used 3:29 in all sorts of facets of my life. 3:31 You know, negotiating when buying a house, 3:33 the skills that you develop, learning how to argue 3:36 and bargain also helps you in a lot of, 3:39 they're truly portable skills. 3:40 - Of course, so you work with high school debaters 3:43 through the Boston Debate League. 3:45 and teach a dual enrollment class here at Suffolk. 3:49 How does participating in debate impact 3:51 young people's futures? 3:53 - I've noticed, because we've been teaching the class 3:55 for I think, nine years now, 3:57 that a lot of our students are very active and involved, 4:01 not just in their communities, 4:03 but in Greater Boston. 4:04 There's a high school leadership council 4:07 that works for Mayor Wu, 4:09 and there's been a member of the Boston Debate League 4:12 on that council almost every year that I've been teaching- 4:14 - Wow. - The class. 4:15 So they're very active 4:16 and engaged and they wanna prepare. 4:18 And so when they take the class as high school students, 4:21 it's really preparing them for a higher level 4:23 of civic and community engagement 4:26 not just in their communities, but in their high schools 4:28 and when they go off to college. 4:30 So a lot of them, I think it prepares them 4:32 for those leadership positions. 4:34 - Speaking of college, actually three years ago, 4:37 you reestablished Suffolk College Policy Debate team. 4:41 - Yes. - Why is it so important 4:43 for students to have the opportunity now 4:45 in higher education as well? 4:48 - I think oftentimes students come to us 4:51 from secondary programs, where so much of 4:54 what they're doing in high school now is they learn 4:56 how to memorize, they learn how to take tests, 4:59 but the ability to critically think, the ability 5:03 to be an advocate, the ability to use logic and reason, 5:07 I think a lot of school, a lot of students 5:08 come into school with that 5:11 as almost a skill deficiency, 5:12 and debate gives them the opportunity 5:14 to really develop that skill. 5:17 - So something fascinating I found you really do is 5:21 you bring your colleagues teams 5:23 into correctional facilities. 5:25 - Yes. - To debate against 5:26 incarcerated people as a part 5:28 of the National Prison Debate League program 5:32 which you also coach. - Yes. 5:34 - What has that been like 5:36 for your students to have that hands-on experience? 5:39 - I thank you for asking. 5:40 It's been a really transformative 5:42 experience for the students. 5:43 I've spent the last three years now 5:46 coaching the main, 5:47 I coached the main correctional center team. 5:49 I coached the men's team for a year. 5:51 I coached the women's team for a year, 5:52 and now I'm coaching Cheshire Prison in Connecticut, 5:56 so I'm moving to Connecticut, so wherever they need me. 5:59 But it's one of those things I just kind of got sucked into. 6:02 I was asked to judge a debate 6:04 between the Maine Correctional Center 6:06 and Boston College a few years ago and loved the experience. 6:11 And then I said, "Well, how could I get involved?" 6:13 And they said, "Well, we're glad you asked." 6:14 So I've been coaching, 6:15 and then I brought the Suffolk team up 6:17 and it really is, it's a powerful experience 6:20 for them to walk into the facility. 6:23 And I've had debaters now 6:25 that have already done it twice, 6:26 but last time we went, there were some debaters 6:29 that were going for the first time 6:30 and the look on their faces when they were walking 6:33 into the main correctional center. 6:34 And that door closes and locks shut behind you. 6:38 And then you walk into the room, which is 6:41 like a larger assembly room, 6:43 and you meet the residents of the facility, 6:47 that you're gonna be competing against. 6:49 And the thing that I like most is, 6:52 the debates have always been fantastic, 6:55 but it's after the debates when we could sit down 6:57 and have a meal. 6:57 And I noticed the debaters aren't just sitting 7:00 amongst themselves that they're mixing 7:02 and mingling with the prisoners 7:05 and getting to know a little bit about their lives 7:08 and hearing their stories and things like that. 7:10 So it really is a transformative experience. 7:13 I could tell you, coming back from Maine, 7:16 like usually when we're coming back from debate 7:17 competitions, it's dead silent. 7:19 You would never imagine a handful of debaters 7:22 would just be quiet. 7:23 - It's quiet. 7:24 - But when we're coming back from Maine, 7:25 they all they wanna do is talk about the experience. 7:27 So you could always tell 7:28 that something has had an impact on 18 to 22-year-old 7:31 college students because they just want to talk about it. 7:33 And so I think that that's really neat. 7:35 - No, that sounds wonderful. 7:37 It sounds like a great opportunity for students, 7:39 but how has it impacted the incarcerated debaters as well? 7:44 - I think it's important for them, like the motto 7:47 of the National Prison Debate League is decarcerating minds. 7:50 And so I think oftentimes when they see college students 7:54 that are willing to give up their time to come travel 7:57 up to the facility, and, you know, we have to go through all 8:00 of the various security protocols 8:02 and clearances just to get into the facility. 8:04 So it's not like we could just show up. 8:05 Like there's a lot of background 8:06 that you would probably imagine 8:08 to get into a prison. 8:10 And the prisoners are always blown away 8:13 by the college students who come in 8:14 and just genuinely want to get to know them 8:16 and meet them and interact with them. 8:19 Because as someone who's worked in that space now 8:22 for a couple of years, I can tell you most of the people 8:24 that are on my prison debate team, 8:26 they are not the same people 8:27 that they were when they came to prison. 8:29 And so the fact that these students are willing to come up 8:32 and devote time and engage them 8:35 because we debate, like we'll debate a separate topic 8:37 from what we're debating in the college season. 8:38 So they've gotta prepare for the debate. 8:41 So I think there's a lot of mutual respect there. 8:44 - What are the typical debates that go on 8:46 if you don't mind my asking? 8:48 - Last year we had a fascinating debate on the role 8:52 and use of artificial intelligence in predictive policing. 8:55 - Oh wow. - And so that was, 8:57 that was a good debate. 8:58 And the Suffolk team won that debate. 9:01 We've actually gone up to the main correctional 9:03 center now twice. 9:05 And so the Suffolk team is one in one. 9:07 So we're gonna go up there at some point this year, 9:09 probably in December or January for the rubber match. 9:13 - [Francisca] For a tiebreaker. 9:14 - We've gotta have a tiebreaker. 9:15 But that was a great experience last year. 9:17 There's a documentary filmmaker at BU, John Baynard, 9:20 who's spent the last almost year and a half doing, 9:24 filming a documentary on the main correctional 9:26 center women's team. 9:27 So he's been following, you know, the team 9:30 and interviewing me and interviewing the Suffolk debaters. 9:33 So the documentary should be out sometime 9:36 early next year. 9:38 But it was really, you know, that also added 9:40 to the experience because the debaters walked in, 9:43 for half of them, it was the first time 9:44 they'd ever been in a prison. 9:46 It was a huge audience. 9:48 They met, you know, the inmates 9:49 and then of course the guards are there, 9:50 and then there's cameras and microphones everywhere. 9:52 It's like being in the studio. Right? 9:54 So that's what it was like for them. 9:55 So it was a daunting experience, 9:57 but they handled it really well. 9:58 - That sounds really exciting. - Really proud of them. 10:00 Yeah it was, yeah. 10:02 - I'll be on the lookout for that documentary 10:03 when it comes out. - It'll be airing on PBS 10:05 sometime early next year. 10:06 - I love that. 10:07 So just switching gears a little, 10:09 along with debating, you also teach a course here at Suffolk 10:13 called the History of Rap and Hip Hop. 10:17 - Yes. - How does that relate 10:18 to your work and debating civic engagement, 10:24 youth empowerment activity? 10:26 - Well, rap music really started as a method 10:29 of youth empowerment. 10:31 And I've always been a big rap and hip hop fan. 10:34 I grew up in Queens, New York, 10:36 not far from the birthplace of rap in the Bronx. 10:40 And I've always been a fan. 10:41 And, you know, Chuck D the rap group Public Enemy 10:45 once famously said that rap music 10:47 is CNN for the Black community. 10:49 And I think that there's some, some truth to that 10:52 in the sense that you use that as as a form of empowerment, 10:56 as a way to speak to the community, 10:58 as a way to find your voice. 11:00 And I think historically that's what the purpose that rap 11:03 and the hip hop community served in those urban areas. 11:07 So I think there's a lot of parallels between debate 11:10 and rap and hip hop. 11:11 So I've been teaching this, 11:13 this freshman seminar for a few years now, 11:15 and I really enjoy the class, 11:17 and the students seem to enjoy it too. 11:18 - Yeah, I think that looks like an interesting perspective 11:22 to have on it. 11:23 Like, I feel like people wouldn't typically believe 11:25 that they go together, but- 11:26 - Yeah but I see parallels in a lot of the things. 11:29 I see the parallels between football 11:30 and debate, between debate and rap. 11:32 So at least in my mind, in my mind, it makes sense. 11:35 - Yeah, of course. 11:36 So my final question, why is it important to ensure 11:40 that everyone, especially young people today, have a voice 11:44 and know how to use it? 11:47 - Because at the end of the day, my generation, 11:50 we are gonna age out. 11:52 So really your generation is the future. 11:55 You are the future political leaders. 11:58 You are the future civic leaders, 11:59 you're the future social leaders, 12:01 you are the future economic and business leaders. 12:03 You're the future community leaders. 12:05 So I think it's important for students. 12:07 You don't start developing your voice 12:08 when you become a leader. 12:09 You start developing your voice, 12:11 and that's ultimately what propels you to a position 12:13 of leadership, whether it's leadership in your church 12:16 or in your community, in your town or your business. 12:19 So I think it's important for students to start developing 12:22 that voice when they're in college. 12:24 This is the incubator, 12:25 this is the place for that to take place. 12:27 - Of course, well, I love that, 12:30 I love that quote about leadership isn't, 12:33 or sorry, your voice doesn't develop 12:36 when you're a leader, you develop it. 12:39 - You need to develop that voice 12:40 before you become a leader. 12:41 - Yeah, I love that quote so much. 12:43 Thank you so much for being here. 12:45 - Thank you for having me. - I love our conversation. 12:46 - Appreciate it. - Of course. 12:48 And thank you for joining us. 12:50 We'll see you next time on "The On-Ramp." 12:52 (pleasant outro music)